Pants-wearing women running wild?
A group of women have decided they want to be able to dress themselves on Sunday. The reaction (see the comments below) are what happens when LDS women challenge the patriarchal order of things by a) wearing pants, and b) organizing something without the “blessing” of “priesthood.”
The comments below are ACTUAL comments from a public Facebook event page (since removed by FB, new page here) that invites women to wear pants suits to church on Sunday, December 16, 2012.
I did not make any of these comments up. In fact, I restricted myself to only grabbing the latest comments (out of hundreds), and I only copied new posts (not comments on posts, which, in many cases, were even more batshit crazy than the initial comments).
These comments demonstrate how deep sexism runs in the church. It’s like groundwater. It seeps into everyting. Those who think the “pants” issue doesn’t matter are dead wrong. It is a HUGE deal, because it taps into the legitimacy of the gender roles that the Church has promoted for decades. The church has told women, millions of them, that the path to happiness is to surrender themselves to the larger purposes of bearing children and supporting the priesthood. Women with careers, in positions of authority and responsiblity, running around wild in pants suits, is a challenge to the cultural infrastructure that the church, as an institution, has spent years putting in place.
On one hand, the church is smart enough to know that it has to APPEAR neutral on this. That is why there are public pronouncements about women being “allowed” to wear whatever they feel is most appropriate (as long as it is their Sunday “best”). The church IS NOT neutral, however. It goes to great lengths to make sure that the norms against pants suits (and women running wild in general) are maintained. The wives of GAs, for example, are instructed to wear skirts and dresses. So are the wives of mission presidents and other leaders. What sister missionaries wear is carefully controlled. Basically, care is taken to make sure that no woman in any visible position wears anything but a skirt or a dress. That, my friends, is how you maintain a cultural norm, and in that context, press releases telling women they can decide for themselves what to wear are meaningless.
Doves and Serpents has covered this ground before (see this post, and this post).
Now, on to a public airing of the ongoing parade of sexism, ignorance, and slavish devotion to imaginary religious imperatives taking place right now on the Wear Pants to Church Day Facebook page. Hopefully, shining some additional light on this kind of craziness will have a salutory effect:
The beauty of an event like this is that it EXPOSES the most angry, prideful women in the church. The types that are SO selfish and arrogant that they’ll destroy marriages and families and harm innocent children by demanding divorce. It’s best for men to identify who those women are BEFORE they might marry them and offer them a chance to destroy their own innocent children’s family with their angry, prideful liberal views. Great job ladies! Voice WHO/WHAT you are LOUD and CLEARLY! ;-) FAIR WARNING: The SAME ‘SPIRIT’ that tells you to wear PANTS to church in OPEN REBELLION against the encouragement of God’s appointed leaders will NEXT tell you to STOP going to church…then FIGHT AGAINST the church! [Bret Bowman]
This is pathetic, i seriously thought this was a joke. I think it’s funny how all of you guys are protesting against the church. If you don’t like how things are, don’t go. It’s simple as that. If you dont agree with the doctrine or what we do as latter day saints then find a different religion. You can tell we live in the last days when people start doing this. [Jenny Lynne]
Its groups like this that are a complete disgrace to the LDS religion. People like you are contributing to the false teachings and rumors that women aren’t equal in the church. Any woman can wear a pants suit to church if that’s what she feels comfortable with, the Bishop only asks to wear your best out of respect to Heavenly Father. If you feel like that’s your best, then do it. Nobody would ridicule you for it. We don’t go to church to compare ourselves, testimonies, outfits or personal worth with anybody. We go to become closer with God. The fact that you identify wearing PANTS to church as being an equal, and disregard the fact that we are able to create life inside of us, that Heavenly Father gave us the PRIVILEGE have children, which is something men CAN’T, then that is such a slap in the face to mothers and future mothers everywhere. It really shows who you are, where your mind is at and most importantly where your heart is at. Pathetic. [Darla Thomas Allen]
I think this is a rediculous page like really what’s next? U will be saying believing in Jesus is wrong because he is male, will you be questioning why we had a male as the savior of the world. Becareful what you bring upon yourself, this is the Lord’s church and the church of order we should not seek to grow our political ambitions using the church. Visitors may wear what they feel comfortable and the bishop should speak to them about that. Women are precious and valuable and loved in the church it is discipline and reverence that male put on ties and pants, and sister wearing dresses. I seriously think whoever created this page is inactive and probably angry at the church so they trying to create some controvesy, and if you are active but embarking in this inappropriate association you might as well stay home, the Lord’s church will go on with or without any of us regardless of who you are. God bless. [Tony Mathe]
This is really ridiculous. I question the testimonies of those that created this event. I have no doubts that my Heavenly Father and my ward members would love me the same no matter what I wear. I am proud to wear my Sunday best to church out of respect for my Heavenly Father. [Aryn Hinton]
Why does this protest against modern shovenistic culture need to be involved with church attendance & worship? I’m not saying I disagree with the movement against the culture in the world today and inequalities against women, but I disagree with how this is being conducted. Are you going to contend next that women should also wear pants in the temple? This is not something that should involve church worship regardless of your faith. No prophet or church leader has told you not to wear pants and you certainly would still be welcome if you did. What is the reason behind trying to dress up? I think people have lost sight of what is really important. I will be very disappointed if this disrupts the reverence of church service and focusing on our savior, Jesus Christ. THIS TAKES THE FOCUS AWAY FROM HIM. [Eric Carl Schultz]
Think of your purpose of going to church. Isn’t it to serve the Lord and to serve others? Now think of what you covenant to do. Isn’t to keep His commandments? We also know that our present-day prophet speaks for the Lord. Then why would you, by your actions, arm-twist our church leaders into conforming to your wants and needs? You say you are doing this in the name of equality for all. Can you imagine a church where the members can decide to call for groups of people to do whatsoever they want in the name of equality? Supporting this group would be a step towards it being a church of man instead of a church of our Savior. So, please just stop this! [Laura Ong]
What a waste of time and energy. Wear whatever the hell you want to church. No one cares but you. [Lance Teeples] This is just Stupid! Waste of thought and too much Drama…. next thing you know it it will be MEN WEAR SKIRTS TO CHURCH SUNDAY… due to the inequality of not allowed to birth children… [Betsea Ralph]
So the Devil already wears Prada, now she want women to wear pants to Church? Doesn’t the Church have enough problems without this moron stirring up more? [Steve Green]
So when men decide they need some equality and start wearing dresses and lipstick to church I hope none of you mind and are willing to explain to your children that it’s because we should all be the same. [Darleen Yoblonovsky]
[and there’s plenty more where that came from on the Facebook event page, since removed by FB; new page here]
All this makes me think of Caitlin Moran’s book How to Be a Woman. As Emma Brockes writes in her New York Times review, Moran’s book “is a glorious, timely stand against sexism so ingrained we barely even notice it. It is, in the dour language she militates so brilliantly against, a book that needed to be written.” On page 13, Moran writes this: “When Rudy Giuliani became mayor of New York in 1993, his belief in the Broken Windows theory led him to implement the ‘Zero Tolerance’ policy. . . I feel the time has come for women to introduce their own Zero Tolerance policy on the Broken Window issues in our lives-I want a Zero Tolerance policy on ‘All the Patriarchal Bullshit.'”
I say we apply this standard everywhere, including our religious institutions.
“Think of your purpose of going to church. Isn’t it to serve the Lord and to serve others? Now think of what you covenant to do. Isn’t to keep His commandments? ”
WARNING: Slippery slope ahead.
OK, let’s assume that the purpose of going to church is to serve the Lord and keep his commandments. Where is the commandment that women cannot wear pants to church?
Let’s start a revolution by making a distinction between culture, church policy, recommendations of leaders, church doctrine, commandments and eternal truths. Because I don’t think the dress vs. pants issue is church doctrine or a commandment or an eternal truth. Same with how many earrings (and whether they are pierced or clip-on for those of us who grew up in the 1960’s) or whether men must wear a white shirt and a tie.
In other words, some of these commenters need to get over themselves.
I think point number 2 is more important than point number 1. I think that really is what is bugging people. I do find it sad that the message that this isn’t about pants at all has seemingly been lost or incapable to grasp by so many. I like Joanna’s take on this. It is about just standing up and being counted for so many women who have felt the small (and large) injustices for so long. The injustices that are swept under the rug, are poo-pooed, that are systematically treated as idiosyncratic, that we will get to fixing sometime in the future. If all it does it get small conversations started in wards around the country or lead to a few women in a some wards finding solidarity where they thought there was none it will have been worth it. I have a feeling our Mormon feminist foremothers are looking down and smiling.
Holy pants on fire has the FB announcement page blown up. We could collect offensive and sexist comments there for years. Here is maybe the worst I have seen. It is so bad, I can only hope it is just a poor attempt at irony and sarcasm:
every single person who is a minority activist, should be shot.. in the face… point blank… GET OVER YOURSELVES….[Travis James Richardson]
I have the screen shot if anyone wants it. Supposedly this guy is a philosophy major at BYU.
Larry, please post or send us the screen shot (brent@thebeals.net), we want to preserve that one, laughing. . .
I just emailed it to you Brent.
“Can you imagine a church where the members can decide to call for groups of people to do whatsoever they want in the name of equality?”
Yes I can and it would be awesome!!
As usual, the most common attack seems to be along the lines of “shut up and get out of the Church.” So very Christian. For example:
If you have a problem with how you’re being treated for wearing whatever you please, than (sic) do one of two things: 1) suck it up [or] 2) Go home.[Jason Blake]
That is offensive enough. But then Mr. Blake takes kicks his ironic misogyny up a notch. In response to a sister that pushed back just a bit, he says the following:
And according to a recent Facebook status on your page you are also PMSing . . . So I understand.
Remember, this is all in effort to say “your tame feminist activities are unnecessary and unwanted.” The irony is almost funny. Almost.
I have the screen shots.
According to Chad Kocherhans, all women that question cultural gender norms are probably lesbians.
<Was this page created by lesbians? Just curious . . . [Chad Kocherhans]
According to Chad Kocherhans, all women that question cultural gender norms are probably lesbians.
Was this page created by lesbians? Just curious . . . [Chad Kocherhans]
It’s very sad that there are so many women commenting on this page (I’ve read a bunch myself) who think that women are actually not supposed to wear pants, like the prophet stated it himself. Some have commented “You should be following the prophet”, etc. Seriously? Wow.
Also, I think I’ve said this before about something else, but doesn’t anyone remember that at one time the Church didn’t allow black men to hold the priesthood? Brigham Young himself stated that they would NEVER receive the priesthood. Well thank goodness we eventually stopped following that statement from a prophet!
Culture and policies change. Hopefully we can make the changes necessary to have men and women actually be equal because really, can two partners ever really be equal when one is forced to promise to obey the other?
I’m amused at all the lesbian name calling. As if that was offensive or something.
Why not include some of the women within the scriptures who are empowering (into our lessons) rather than worrying about what we are wearing? Seriously, don’t we have better things to do with our time and energy? I have never been told what to wear to Church nor am I offended by anyone wearing what they want…you say the FaceBook page exploded, but honestly, I think you are flattering yourselves to think people care as much as you think they do. I, for one, couldn’t care less and know that in our Ward, we’d welcome you no matter how you are dressed. I can’t even tell you what anyone was wearing yesterday because I was happy to see my Ward family. I am laughing that there are so many silly comments about it on one hand, but irritated that I have spent time reading them….so petty and a lot of hot air that could have been used to help others who really need it! Let it go, people! Our Savior would definitely do the same and I do believe our Church leadership would too.
You’ve never been told what to wear to church? Really?
Our ward had a 5th Sunday combined Priesthood/RS meeting and half the time was spent on women’s necklines being too low and the fact that all men should wear white shirts and not have any facial hair. Same bishop would not let the deacon’s quorum president pass the sacrament because wore a white shirt with colored strips to church.
I have watched YW leaders pull girls out of meetings and tell them that they should not be wearing pants to church. Our stake has always had a policy that any event held in the chapel requires that women wear dresses — yes, we could not hold a mutual activity unless all the girls were told to wear dresses.
If, in fact, we should focus on something more important that what we wear to church, then let’s make sure that cuts both ways. If it doesn’t matter, then stop criticizing people for how they dress.
I agree, we should let it go — but that means that church (global and local) leadership needs to let it go, too. You can’t have it both ways.
@mom in the trenches, this is about more than pants (obviously). . . This is about women taking back a little power from a male-dominated religious institution by. . . are you ready for this?. . . deciding for themselves what their “Sunday best” is. In other words, this about women making it known that they are capable of dressing themselves.
You claim that you have “never been told what to wear.” Please take a moment and look up the term “social norm” and then get back to me. Women are told very clearly what to wear. And unfortunately (and ironically), those that are often the most concerned about keeping women in line are other women. By taking the time to post a comment informing other women that their concerns about being able to dress themselves “don’t matter,” you become part of the problem.
I live in Salt Lake City, and I get the impression that this seemingly innocuous movement really stirred up emotions here. Many people were very upset and threatened with the idea that women in the church would organize about anything, even something most people outside of the church would consider trivial. I personally think it’s because there are underlying issues here that church members are concerned with regarding women and equality. I like this uke song video by Millie Montag called “You Might as Well Wear a Skirt” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmze01JJj3Y, because it touches on one of the real issues of equality for many Mormon women, which is not being allowed to hold the priesthood. It’s a fun parody of Catherine’s uke song “Put on Your Pants” uke song posted on this Doves and Serpents. https://dovesandserpents.org/2012/12/put-on-your-pants-uke-song/. Shouldn’t members be able to talk about these things without people getting so upset?
Love your last question, Mark. Yes–why all the fear and vitriol and finger-pointing? Let’s have a conversation, people.