Did you have a birds-and-the-bees talk when you were a kid? Mine occurred in fourth grade the night before they showed the puberty video at school. My dad came up to my room, pulled out a legal pad, drew a very simple drawing of . . . Minnie Mouse . . . and then drew ovaries, a uterus, and fallopian tubes in Minnie’s triangle body. [I don’t know why my dad got this responsibility. Maybe he drew the short straw? I also can’t explain Minnie Mouse’s appearance.] He explained menstruation, asked if I had any questions, I said no, and then he left. Of course I had a million questions, but wasn’t about to admit it. There was no discussion of sex, although I knew there were some books I could grab off the bookshelves outside my room when a question arose.
Brent’s parents gave him a book to read that explained everything about sex except for the part about where the sperm and the egg come from and how they get together. (Hello, that seems like a pretty big oversight, doesn’t it?)
Our experiences are fairly ordinary, according to Regnerus, who suggests that many highly religious parents are very reluctant to talk to their kids about sex. Roman Catholic (25.2%), Jewish (20.0%), and Mormon (29.1%) parents reported that it is “somewhat” or “very hard” to talk to their kids about sex. The more frequently a family attends church, the less frequently they communicate to their kids about sex and birth control. Mormon parents are more likely (21.4%) than other religious parents to never talk to their kids about birth control. And when religious parents do talk to their kids about sex, the messages are normative rather than informative. So kids-religious ones at least-are not getting good information about sex from their parents.
They’re not getting it at school, either-at least in the U.S. Abstinence-only sex ed programs are the primary approach used in 35% of American public schools. An additional 50% teach “abstinence plus,” which means some contraceptive methods are discussed, but abstinence remains the focus. That leaves only 15% of schools who offer more comprehensive sex education.
They’re not getting it at church (although I’m not sure I’d want them to). In the Mormon church, they’re likely to be told that they shouldn’t be “necking” or “petting.” [I remember cringing every time I heard that word when I was a teenager and thinking “What on earth is petting?”] Boys are warned that they shouldn’t masturbate-ever.
The end result is that kids don’t really know anything about sex. This strikes me as strange. We have laws that dictate minimum ages for driving and for purchasing alcohol and cigarettes. Some cities have curfews for teen drivers. Some states prohibit cell phone use while driving. These laws are intended to protect kids from harm. I’m certainly not suggesting that we try to legislate teenagers’ sexuality, but the ignore-it-and-hope-it-goes-away approach doesn’t seem very wise, either.
So what do we do about it? Well, my husband is determined to do a better job with our kids than what we experienced. (And if my parents ever read this-which they won’t-don’t feel bad about Minnie Mouse. It’s such a great story!) Brent seems to have settled on an ask-and-ye-shall-receive approach: if they ask, he tells them. This approach failed him once (that I know of). He picked our girls up from school and took them to get ice cream. Kennedy (age 10) was in the front and little Marin (age 7) was in the back. Kennedy heard the term “prison rape” on NPR and said: “But wait. Usually prisons are just all men or all women, right? So how could there be rape if there’s only men or only women?” So he dove right into an explanation about prison rape. Then all of the sudden, he heard Marin pipe up with a muffled “Huh?” from the backseat. He had forgotten she was in the back seat. So while Kennedy’s first (of many) “sex talks” was very carefully orchestrated and nuanced, Marin’s introduction to sex was prison rape. Oops. Parental fail number I-stopped-counting-a-long-time-ago.
Not all of our conversations have gone so poorly. I don’t love those conversations and still cringe whenever these topics crop up (although not as much as I used to). Luckily for me, Brent is the go-to person in our family for body-related questions. Our girls have even gone to him with questions about menstruation. He answers their questions and then suggests that they ask me for details since he’s never experienced it. I have sometimes felt bad that they ask him questions that seem obviously more appropriate for me, but I’ve let that sliver of guilt go and am just glad that they are comfortable talking to him.
How do you handle these kinds of questions? Have you talked to your kids about sex? Was it a one-shot deal or is it a more organic process? If your kids are young, do you dread the birds-and-the-bees talk? Do you feel like your religious beliefs are helpful to you as you navigate this issue as a parent, or do you feel like they are a hindrance? Does adding god to the equation help kids make better sense of their emerging sexuality, or does it just muddy the waters? Lastly, does anyone have any good or awful sex-talk-stories they’re willing to share? Can anyone top Brent’s prison-rape debacle?
Featured Image cartoon found at Princess of Procrastination.
I’m just like Brent – ask and ye shall receive – possibly more than you wanted to know. My theory is that by the time puberty hits, kids have heard weird half-truths from their friends, are embarrassed by their bodies changing, and will never ask themselves or want to talk about it. I’m determined that they’ll hear the real truth, from me or their dad, before they hear it “on the street”. So far, this has proved to be true and the kids have asked questions organically. I’ve found, it takes more than one discussion – the first time they are a bit confused!
One of my favorite conversations was after the “where a baby comes from” chat. My son said, “SO, you do that if you want to have a baby.” I answered dead-pan, “Yes, and sometimes just for fun”, and watched his little face scrunch up and try to figure that one out. LOL. Giving them scientific information is easy, giving them a balanced and healthy approach to their sexuality is much trickier!
The same child asked me a question about sex a few weeks ago, and I told him that he could always ask his dad about this stuff too. He looked horrified and said, “I would NEVER do that”. I asked why and suggested that dad would be great to talk to since he has the same “parts” as you do. He said (and I will forever be able to tease my hubby), “Because you know way more about this stuff than dad does.”
Very funny, Laurie.
A couple weeks ago, Stuart said he had seen a couple on Glee with their shirts off. He said, “I think they were supposed to be naked. But WHY would anyone want to be with someone else naked?” I told him people like to do that because it feels good. He said, “Do YOU like to do that with Dad?” I told him yes. He looked horrified and said, “That just doesn’t make any sense.” I agreed that it probably didn’t make sense to him because he was 7, but that when he was grown up, it would make more sense.
What comprehensive information is missing from abstinence sex-ed? they get all the details – they just promote abstinence. I’ve sat through one they did for parents at our school district and I was most impressed with it.
DeeAnn, I can only speak from what I’ve read since I didn’t get any kind of sex ed. at all. The only whiff of anything sex-related was a unit about STDs in a semester long health course taught by one of the worst examples of “health” I may have ever encountered–the athletic trainer for our football team, who was morbidly obese and chewed tobacco. (Yes, that is harsh, but I remember sitting in class and listening to him drone on and really resenting it.)
I think there’s a lot more to sex ed than just teaching kids not to have sex. I’ve read enough about schools with comprehensive sex ed programs that involve discussion of values, decision-making, planning, pregnancy prevention, safety, etc., that I’m persuaded that that is a lot better than just telling kids not to have sex. I would think it is something that would need to happen over an extended period of time–a semester?–and not just a one-shot deal.
I have 3 kids–2 boys and 1 girl. I talked to the boys, my wife to our daughter. We had books with drawings that were age appropriate and we allowed them to look over the books at length after the discussions. Actually, they weren’t really discussions, but us talking and pointing to pictures. They were very matter of fact, but we tried to make them conversational, rather than lectures, like it’s not a big deal. I kept saying, “I’ll keep talking and you feel free to ask any questions, but I’m not going to ask you any questions–you don’t have to say anything if you don’t want to.”
With my oldest son, we get to the part where I describe “THE ACT” itself that produces babies and we turn to the page where there’s a tasteful illustration of a couple under covers. He looks up at me, right in the eyes, and incredulously blurts out: “You didn’t do . . . THAT!” I said immediately “I did it at least 3 times. Do the math.”
So, while we were cleaning up from dinner several weeks ago, our 14 year old daughter announced that they started the Sex Education chapter that day in Health class. Husband and I asked how it went. She said it was pretty awkward. I asked if there were pictures. She said no, but there were illustrations. This started a rather weird conversation amongst the family regarding body parts, etc.
It was hard to tell how my husband was feeling about the whole thing, he just kept washing dishes. Oldest daughter commented that when she had sex ed the illustrations of the male sex parts looked funny. She said that the penises were small and floppy looking. Of course, 16 year old son was feeling rather on the spot by this time. So, I tried to help by explaining that all penises are “small and floppy” most of the time. I was trying to explain it with the example of those toy light sabres that are segmented, with the sections that nest inside of themselves. But, when I opened my mouth, I didn’t say light sabre. Not sure why, but I said something to effect of a penis being like a magic wand.
16 year old son said, “oh my gosh” shook his head and left the room. 14 year old daughter started laughing hysterically. I could see my husband’s eyes rolling, even with his back to me. (Still washing dishes.) I don’t think this is what church leadership had in mind for Family Home Evening……..
I always figured it’s easier to talk to a 3 or 5 year old about sex than a 13 to 15 year old so I’ve tried to make it an ongoing coversation in our house. This has led to a few situations where my kids were better/nore informed than their peers. One week my daughter’s Primary teacher stopped me in the hall to share that the question of how babies were made had come up in class, and that she had referred the kids back to their parents for the answer. “Oh, that’s okay, she already knows, but thanks for letting me know,” I replied. “Oh yes, that became clear. (Your daughter) confidently told the class that babies came from mommy’s bottom after the mom and dad do a ‘special leg hug.'” She was about 7.
Another instance happened shortly after my second was born. My oldest was 3 and of course had been very interested in the pregnancy, going with me to the midwife, and anything and everything to do with how bodies worked. She was about to ‘graduate’ from Nursery and one week near Christmas they had the kids act out the Nativity. Maren was playing the part of Mary and was handed a baby doll at some point in the story. She stuck in down her dress right away and then proceeded to give birth to it by pulling it out slowly from under her dress, shocking and amusing the nursery leaders. I’m fairly confident most of the kids were oblivious.
I’m hoping you have video footage of the nativity – that’s great!
I think the less orchestrated talks that occur in the car or wherever else are the best for demystifying sex–as much as possible when talking with kids–and take the edge off parents and kids alike.
About a year into my first marriage, before kids, my 4-year-old nephew was visiting us and asked us if he was going to have any cousins. “Oh, some day, probably.” He said, “Well, it’s really easy, you know. The boy’s penis goes into the girl’s vagina and the sperm and the egg get together and you have a baby in your tummy. So you should just do that and I would have a cousin.” (At which point hubby blushed violently and left the room.)
(My nephew’s parents were foster parents who dealt with kids who had been sexually abused, so they had a lot of frank talks with all their bio kids very early on.)
I am a very very open and frank person generally AND I was hushed a bit too many times around Mormon ladies and gents so I got the message that Mormons DON’T talk about this stuff. While pregnant with my 5th child my first 6, second 5 and third 4 were asking questions about where babies came from. So, I got out the white board that I used for school and drew fairly detailed pictures of male and female anatomy and gave WAY too much information. One of my children used that information to PRACTICE on his sibling in later years, not too many years later either. I was unaware of my part in the mess til much later. I have kept fairly quiet since except when my third child was 18 or so and had been away at college for a year and expressed a desire that I talk to the girls more about sex. She had been informed about ‘cherry’ and told me what it was. I disagreed and looked it up on the internet and my understanding happened to be correct. After that I talked with all my younger girls, printed pictures of their anatomy and explain about desire, stimulation etc and puberty for the youngest. I let them know that it was wonderful and to enjoy themselves and feel free to explore. I left it to my husband to talk to the boys. I am not sure that they got the same message. I have not talked to my children about penises in vaginas. I have talked about egg and sperm.
All of my children are very aware that clothes are NOT my bag and that I LOVE to be with my husband with NO CLOTHES on.
Basically, tons missing, and a healthy view of the body and being together naked. I am not sure I will do anything differently even now. I feel like the classes and talks the kids get in YW/YM and from the Bishop are so different than MY view that I am discounted by the ones who are totally believing and those that seem more open OPPOSE the leaders and Bishop on their own. I may feel that I have a chance with them to be even MORE blunt.
In 1977 I discovered that two playmates (twin sisters who lived in Manhattan) had given my 7-year-old daughter very explicit information about sex during a sleep-over at our suburban house, and the girls were playing a pencil and paper game using words like penis and vagina. Naturally our first sex-ed conversation (immediately following my discovery) had to be frank and explicit, covering both biology and pleasure. With my other children, it was only natural that we sat them down at age 7 for a similar talk. As I learned, if we don’t talk about sex with children at a young age, someone else is going to give them any variety of information/misinformation.
When I was little, my Mormon parents read us Mormon kids a book that has been affectionately called “The Pink Book” ever since. When I was in high school, I wrote a piece for my school newspaper for it, and submitted it for awards. I don’t think that particular column ever won anything…but The Pink Book has won a place in my heart eternally. This post reminded me of that column; here’s a link to it:
http://www.truthorderrick.com/columnpinkbook.html
Derrick
I remember not being curious at ALL and having my mom draw pictures to explain it one day out of the blue. I’m not sure if the fact that she is an artist made it better or worse.
So far, we’ve had a few sex themed discussions (our oldest is almost 8) but because the topics came up on their own. And we’ve been careful not to go too far – just enough to answer their questions. If the rest doesn’t come up organically, we’ll eventually do a sit down, but our kids are inquisitive enough that I don’t think it will be an imposition. In fact, they just started noticing and commenting on our kissing habits. We make sure to be openly affectionate which I think will help with their attitude. At least I hope so.
I agree that it’s best to let the questions come from them. And to respond honestly and casually. That is not what I would have done naturally, but Brent sort of pushed me into that and now I feel like it’s the better approach.
And oh, man, I just watched the Modern Family episode from a couple weeks ago where the kids walk in on their parents having sex. SO SO funny.
That’s one of the only episodes I’ve watched so far. Yes, very funny. But wow, I hope my kids don’t feel that way towards our displays of affection one day. Though I suppose that’s somewhat inevitable, regardless of being “caught” or not.
(and I meant to say that our oldest is almost 8 above – not sure where that face came from)
Corktree, our kids heard us telling some friends about that episode and our daughter (10) gasped and said: “Wait. You mean they went into their parents’ room and saw their parents . . . oh my gosh, that.is.disgusting.”
Brent is determined to watch the episode with them, but we haven’t done it yet.
If you put 8 with an end parentheses it becomes a cool face 8)
When I was five years old, she sat me down and told me EVERYTHING. I have known my entire life where babies come from, how they get there, and what parts of my body were involved. However, I was NEVER talked to about feelings and how everything works when you put in your emotions. I know I had a better start than most of my friends, and I am thankful for that, but I feel that there could have been so much more involved in ongoing conversations with my parents (I only ever talked to my mom).
I have talked with my children about sex (in a slow-growing process) their entire lives. However, in the public school system my children are in, I have no choice but to discuss sex very frankly with my children. My 12 year old daughter comes home and tells me that the girls at lunch talk about “disgusting” things they do with boys. My 7 year old son comes home using words like “hump” and talking about “boobies”. At the same time, the high school I used to teach at had a sex ed program a nurse came in and taught once a year that went like follows: “These are pictures of STDs. If you have sex, you will get one.”
And that was that.
As someone mentioned in the last original post, it is undoubtedly the parents responsibility to guide and teach children in their sexual development. The problem I see as this relates to Mormonism is that we are taught it is BAD to FEEL sexual feelings until we are married. So, no matter what I was taught by my mother, I felt GUILTY when I went to church for having those feelings.
In answer to two of Heather’s original questions: I feel the church is a hindrance in developing a healthy sexuality (see my aforementioned reason). God is never a hindrance. God gave us these feelings and the ability to love another human being with our entire selves. He also gave us the ability to feel sexual feelings and they are a gift- not something to be ashamed of. Right?
Re: using fear as a motivator–not good. Sex ed. in Texas (and elsewhere, I presume) means scaring kids by telling them that if they have sex, they’ll get an STD or will get pregnant. Umm, it’s a good bit more complicated than that. That’s why I think we owe it to kids to offer them a more comprehensive sex education that includes feelings/emotions/decisions, etc.–rather than just scare tactics.
Emily, it’s interesting that you separated God from the church (or did I do that in my original post?, I can’t remember). I’m feeling like we’re (we = the Mormon church) are missing the boat on a lot of this. So much talk of modesty and chastity–and way before the kids need it or are ready for it. My 10-year-old came home from church confused as to why they had had a lesson on chastity–the girls are 8-11 years old! When Kennedy turned 12, she was similarly puzzled as to why modesty and/or chastity were discussed every Sunday in some form or another because that was not her experience in primary. It feels like browbeating to me . . .
My impression growing up, from reading stuff by President Kimball, Elder McConkie, et al., was that they weren’t too happy with people feeling sexual feelings after they were married either. Like “Okay, fine, you can do it then, but you shouldn’t enjoy it.”
My high school provided a very in-depth sex education class, at least half of our sophomore health class. It was very objective, at least from what I can remember, and covered biology, anatomy, contraception, and STDs. I’ve always been really thankful for this education because it’s all I ever got. I remember staying with my sister one summer while her husband (in the Marines) was stationed in Japan. She’s 10 years my senior, and I was only 15 at the time. She was unsure of her contraceptive options, and because I’d taken that class the previous year in high school, I had the answers. I got married at 24, and a couple of days before my wedding my mom asked me if I had any questions about sex. Um… no. I would hope that by then I knew what I was getting myself into. But she sweetly told me it was very nice. This was pretty much the sum of the sex education I got from my parents.
Interesting, Jessica. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I smiled when I read that your mom told you it was “very nice.” ;) Do you wish she had said more? Either at that point of earlier?
Not at that point, no. However, I think it would have been good to get more information from my parents versus school/friends/movies. I never got the “sex is bad” feeling from either of my parents, it was just a non-subject. I will say that, for whatever reason, I grew up in the LDS church with a strong sense that sex is wrong before marriage not because sex itself is bad, but in fact because it is so important that it’s to be treated as such. I’ve always been thankful for that perspective because it helped guide me in a very healthy way.
The other day some 5th graders at my school somehow hacked through the firewall of my school districts super duper screener system to get at some porn. The district actually brought all sorts of experts over to try to discover how the 10 year olds had gotten past the system they put in place to keep kids from doing just that at school. Where there is a will. . . there is a way . . .
I would say that “sex education” is going to be something kids will get with or without their parents. I think porn or images of people having sex are readily available. I think even the most diligent parent is going to have a difficult time keeping the child from surfing for information in the Internet. What if you actually watched it with your child and discussed it? A picture is worth a thousand words. I bet they will watch it – when parents aren’t looking. Would you want to be there when they see it to help them process it?
So the description of how it is done is probably secondary to the frank discussion of when to do it and why. Maybe even more important – how to be safe and prevent children until a time when they should come. I know Mormons don’t believe in sex outside of marriage. But what if . . . a child had sex outside of marriage, so they could discover that it isn’t the sole and only purpose to marry? I think a lot of very unhappily married Mormon people are probably thinking. . . wow, I wish I hadn’t married this person just because I was super duper horny at the time. After all, sex is great . . . but it really is only a few minutes out of your day a few times a week in reality. A co-equal marriage and a cocoon of intimacy are so much more important than hot sex in the sack in the long run.
While Mormons spend a lot of time get married to have sex, I’m more of the mind they should do it (get it over with and remove the mystery) so that it wouldn’t be the sole and only factor in choosing someone appropriate to build a life.
I agree 100% about when to do it, why, and how to prevent pregnancy are more important than what sex actually is. And as far as accessing porn, yeah, it is really easy. A friend’s 13-year-old recently downloaded all sorts of crap onto her parent’s computer (crashed the hard drive, etc.) because she was looking for images of naked women. This girl is an absolute gem. She recently started her period and was curious to know what women’s bodies look like. Innocent enough, right? She got way more than she bargained for (and the computer got a terrible virus!). My point is that she did it innocently.
Hahaha, so I had to laugh about the prison-rape story. Very funny.
My parents didn’t address sexuality at all. I think my mom did say something when I started my period during a youth camp and was totally confused and lost. But, I can’t recall what she said. However, she did ask me if I had “any questions”, right in the temple, as I was ready to walk out to the sealing room and get married. Needless to say, by then I had taken my sex education into my own hands. I still wish I would have asked her something, just to see how she’d handle it. Oh well. Too late now.
I’m definitely all about being open and honest – ask and ye shall receive! It’s simply not something that can be avoided, no matter how uncomfortable it may be at times. I’d rather be the one informing my kids, and asking their questions than having them google prison-rape or something. :) The only problem I see is that my husband and I are different in detail. We talked about the prison rape scenario, and how we’d each explain that to a 10-year old. I think I’d put in much less graphic detail than my husband would, not because he’s more honest but he simply doesn’t know how to tone things down to maybe a more age-appropriate level. In the end though, I think it’s simply better to talk about it, but I think with most things I’d wait for them to come up in a more natural setting than picking a random age to sit them down and have the talk (unless I feel like certain things really should have come up by now and they haven’t).
Also, I think discussing sexuality comprehensively is important. I don’t see a point in simply discussing how you get pregnant and avoiding it by “not doing it”. Clearly there is more information, and you can’t dodge that just because of moral views, because it doesn’t help the child understand the world around. At the same time, I do feel that just talking about prevention, STD’s, contraceptives, various sex acts, etc. is also not a complete discussion of sexuality. I’d want my kids to also learn about the emotional and mental issues that come with sexuality, and hopefully how this is all related to love, and why it may be good to wait based on emotional/psychological reasons (as well as maybe moral reasons). I think if we don’t address everything that comes with sexuality we’re not doing our children justice.
Fran… your mom must have really wanted to avoid that conversation…. I bet she told herself she would bring it up with you before the wedding… and just put it off till the absolute last moment!!!
Hahaha, Claire, that’s probably true. But considering that I was 28 when I got married, she really took her time with the sex talk. :) And, I’d say the very last moment was when my sister-in-law grabbed me as I was about to leave our reception, to see if I “had any questions”.