I see The New Era, the April 2012 issue, on the top of a stack of mail. I pick it up, open it, and read this sentence on page 3: “We know that gender was set in the premortal world.”
“How do we know that?” I ask myself. There is an endnote, so I check it out. Four sources. First, the Family Proclamation. “Well,” I think to myself, “there is that line that says that gender is an ‘essential chracteristic’ of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity.” “I’ll come back to that,” I think. Next up, a reference to a recent conference talk given by the author of article. I skip that (just because you said something before doesn’t mean you get to cite yourself when you say it again). Then there are two scriptures: Moses 3:5 and Abraham 3:22-23. The verse from Moses is interesting, but as I read it, I’m reminded of this scene from The Princess Bride. The verses from Abraham are familiar–and it’s nice to know that there were “intelligences” that were organized before the world was (even if the phrasing sounds a little science-fictiony)–but I’m not sure I see the relevance.
So, I think, we have a glorified press release (The Family Proclamation) that everyone wants to treat as scripture (and since we spend so much time talking about an open canon, maybe the folks in the dark suits should go ahead and add it, just to make a point, since no one has added anything since 1918). We have a self-reference (which doesn’t count), a verse that states that everything was created spiritually before it was created physically, and another scripture that’s off topic.
It adds up to a religious institution that really really wants the world to match its imagined reality. Intersex people don’t exist (and we have a proclamation to prove it). Homosexuality doesn’t exist in nature (don’t confuse us by asking us to acknowledge reality) and there aren’t any people that are homosexual (just folks that “suffer” from same-sex attraction). Everything was created spiritually before it was created physically (just in case anyone thought God didn’t put sufficient thought into it). Of course, this verse creates an interesting problem, because it implies that not only did God create a lot of gay swans spiritually, but then he went right ahead and created them physically (Note: It’s estimated that 25% of all pairings of black swans are male-male). “Could he really have created Roy and Silo on purpose?” I ask myself, and then I think of the scene from The Princess Bride again. . .
It’s all a little confusing. And it’s all a little silly. But it’s just religion, right? It’s not really “real.” It doesn’t really matter that much.
Until I think about a 11-year-old boy, old enough to know he’s different than other boys, crying himself to sleep, wondering “who made me?” Convinced, of course, that God wouldn’t have created a perversion. Or of a grown man, doing his best to talk between sobs, telling us how years ago his bishop had promised him that if he married a young woman he was dating, God would lift the burden of being gay. He did–but God didn’t. I try not to think of what it must be like to believe that an intrinsic part of who you are is a “temptation that must be resisted.” I can’t imagine what it must be like to look into a future with no possibility of sanctioned companionship or intimacy. How much do you have to pray before you get calluses on your knees? How much “love the sinner, but hate the sin” can a person take? When does it all become too much?
But it’s just religion. It’s supposed to be simple and neat and tidy. Theology isn’t about complexity or exceptions. It’s about grand statements. It’s about truth with a capital T. So what if things don’t match up perfectly? So what if a few people fall into the cracks?
I put down The New Era. I log into Facebook. The first link I see is to an obituary of a young man.
He was Mormon, and he was gay. And he killed himself yesterday.
[Last Post: 23 A Few Questions?]
Oh, that is so sad!
If nothing else, to be true to any concept of God, religions should be compassionate, understanding, accepting and plain old-fashioned, kind. All religions, all too often are devoid of these four crucial aspects of the best of our human nature. How can any God be less than the best of what we are?
Sadly, the mormon church teaches that even the Tilestial Kingdom is so wonderful that if we could see it, we would kill ourselves to go there. Couple that with a faith community that offers almost no hope of joy in this life (for a gay person), and you’ve got the makings for alot of tragic endings.
Dammit. This whole mess is just awful. As a believer, I honestly think we might be going to hell over this.
I somehow arrived at this site after clicking through several others–what a heart wrenching post. A post that should be shared over and over. It is “real” and it does “matter.” Please keep writing!
I feel very sober.
I do believe that when the intelligences were organised gender was a part of that organization, and that gender is an eternal part of us, but I also believe that gender is not binary.
There is a spectrum of ‘maleness’, and a spectrum of ‘femaleness’, and much of those 2 spectrums is in fact identical: that of being a ‘person’.
I believe some spirits do come in the wrong body, and that some bodies are not in the right part of the spectrum of ‘person’ for the spirit which inhabits the body.
I believe that our sexual orientation is as genetic as our eye colour, and I believe that we should all be held to the same standard in the law of chastity, that is to reserve a sexual relationship for within the bounds of marriage, and that lawful marriages should be available to adult couples who are sexually oriented to each other, regardless of their specific gender.
I believe that God loves all His/Her children, and that any doctrine teaching or practice that causes the depth of despair that can lead to suicide is emphatically not of God.
We have now the teachings/traditions of men, mingled with scripture, and it is killing too many of us.
This breaks my heart and I’m so glad you wrote it.
It’s not real. Just because the whole world (or in my case MY whole world) believes it, that doesn’t make it truth or reality. It just makes it hard to find reality.
So if gender was determined in the premortal existence, does that mean there were gay people in the premortal existence?
Here is an example of how church leaders should react to this issue: http://mormonstories.org/lds-bishop-kevin-kloostermans-talk-on-homosexuals-in-the-lds-church/ (LDS Bishop Kevin Kloosterman’s talk on Homosexuals in the LDS Church).
@Kim, that’s what that verse in Moses says. . . (although it’s usually not cited that way, and that’s why it made me think of that line in The Princess Bride)
Whatever one’s opinion (or belief on homosexuality), there’s one thing we seem to be missing a whole hell of a lot of in church culture (and yes, the top-down church, too): love for sinners.
The politicization of homosexuality – by both sides – has made it far too easy for Mormons and other Christians to categorize the LBGT community as other, as if they’re sins are somehow on a different level than our own sins – both individually, in the aggregate, and as an institution.
Perhaps we would do better if we, starting with our leaders, could admit publicly that we are all sinful, that we all fall short of perfection. (And no, copping to some small sin like good ol’ fashioned male chauvinism, told to delight the audience at the Conference Center doesn’t really count.) If we could admit that we have sinned and have need of God’s love and grace, and the love and kindness of our fellow worshippers, and must extend that love and kindness to others, too.
I agree with Mark: if there’s one thing that will damn the modern church, it just might be our failure to first express (and show) love and kindness and try to understand.
It breaks my heart this things keep happening. It weakens my faith.
I do believe that the straight and narrow path is not like the one some straight and narrow minds have intended.
Straight, like love’s path is. Narrow, as it is individual, for each person according to its personal characteristics.
May All-loving God embrace the sweet soul of this man and give him the peace and rest we all long for.
Abigail, I like that definition of “narrow.” I’ve never thought of it that way. It has always seemed such an exclusionary term, but this throws it into a whole new light.
I wish I could tell every gay Mormon,
“God made you, and he doesn’t make mistakes. He made you gay because He wanted you that way.”
I would also warn the church that they should watch out for a class action suit from all the gay men the church told (as a matter of policy) to marry (because the gay will go away.) If the church tries to defend itself by saying that it was only an opinion, or that the gay member was free to reject that advice, remind them of “The 14 Fundamentals”.
In the end, we must look at ourselves and ask the question; What are we doing that would make death the better choice?
…and then we must do everything in our power to prevent it. (And repent of it.)
Christians take pride in saying how they love Jesus, how they pity His pain and rue his tormentors… and if they had been there on that day, they would have done anything to make Christ’s burden lighter. They would have stood on the side of the faithful disciple.
I say that every day, and in the very name of the Christ you love and honor, you torment Him. You mock Him. You revile him. You tell Him He is of the devil and that it was better that He were dead. This Christ whom you love, loves you, unprofitable servant. His one request in return for that love, was that you show him that you CAN love.
“Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these thy bretheren, ye have done it unto Me.”
How utterly tragic.
It appears, however, that these two remarkable individuals (below) have decided that being Mormon and being gay aren’t mutually exclusive.
mitchmayne.blogspot.com
gaymormonguy.blogspot.com
It’s good that the world is becoming more aware of the silent suffering of so many of our brothers and sisters, but it’s a shame it’s coming at the cost of so many lives.
Exceptional piece. Brief, to the point, and very humbling. Thank you.
What is it with Packer and cleansing inner vessels?
Brent, this is so great. As with so many so-called doctrines there’s very little question about the narrowness of interpretation and often speciousness of circular or even hyper-vague references. You put this out here in context of the very real costs involved in faith and it all suddenly appears beyond tragic.
One of the main reasons we have The Proclamation on the Family is because we don’t have any scriptures that codify our beliefs about gender, gender roles, family, marriage and children. When I was in Primary back when blacks couldn’t hold the priesthood, we didn’t have scripture verses to memorize about Heavenly Parents or whether we were girls and boys before we came to earth.
I, for one, just assumed that I was the same person before I was born that I was after, and that I would be when I died. But I didn’t have any complicating factors like ambiguous genitalia or gender identification issues. (Well, I was very much a “tom boy” but never wanted to identify as anything other than a girl.)
I can’t imagine growing up being told that the way I identify myself now is “a birth defect” or “a result of living in a fallen, terrestrial world” and that, in reality the ME that I am was not the ME that I was before I was born and will not be the same ME after I die. That either the body I am will be different or the spirit – the intelligence, if you will – that I am will change.
I know there are some that find comfort in those promises, just as there are many who find comfort in the idea that “God will work it all out in the end,” but that doesn’t really help me in the day-to-day living and striving and dealing with people who consistently call me Other merely because I look different or am attracted to different types of people. I can’t imagine spending a lifetime wishing, hoping, praying, obeying-with-exactness, fasting, pleading to change my very nature to fit in. I can’t imagine trying to deal with a message that, “If you have enough faith, anything is possible,” and then, when my mountain remains immovable, to assume it is because I am faithless.
What gives me comfort in this life, in the here and now, is this: Nobody is a mistake. Each person is a loving child of God with gifts and talents to make this world a better place. In order to be a Zion People, we need to make room for everyone. The person you are – the intelligence that animates your body, the consciousness that drives your heart and mind – is not an abomination. It is part of what was called Good and Very Good when the work of creation was completed.
Brent, I think this might be my all-time favorite post. So very well-said. I wish that people in authority would think about the potential costs of their words in human lives and suffering before they speak. Bless you for this. Thank you.
This was absolutely heart-breaking to read, as it is every time. I wonder how many of our gay brothers and sisters killing themselves and we DON’T hear about it. Something has to give. We’re paying for our bigotry with human lives.
So very tragic – and I don’t know what the solution is, with the current focus on canonizing everything said by the leaders. Well said, Brent.
I know, how about the earth and everything on it was created by eveloution and all that this religious stuff does is tear apart the human race..I am quite sick of people dieing over religion all around the world. For all we know NONE of it is true. Yet we use religion to hate and kill people. So it is a shame that when we die, we become nothing. So the human population will never learn. Only if there was a way for somene to die and come back and tell everyone there is nothing. then maybe we would value and love EVERYONE because there would be no religion to tell us to hate certain people.
I don’t know how to put this without sounding confrontational, honestly just wondering. Where did you come by the information that he was gay? How do you know this was a suicide, and that being gay played a part in his choosing to end his life? I had a VERY brief acquaintance with this man and his family years ago, and feel very shocked and sad about his choice to commit suicide.
I did not know him personally, but someone who did linked it on Facebook and said that he was gay and that he committed suicide. And while I agree that it’s never good to spread rumors, it’s no mystery that many gay LDS people choose to commit suicide. So the facts remain. Carol Lynn Pearson has compiled story after painful story after painful story of gay Mormon people who contemplate suicide. When numerous gay Mormon people commit or contemplate suicide, I think it calls for a collective gut check.
What are we doing–as members of the LDS church–that might contribute in any way to gay and lesbian people (or any other kind of people, for that matter) feeling unloved and unaccepted? Are there church policies that might contribute to these feelings? Or, what are we NOT doing? What are we NOT saying?
And, more importantly, what can we do about it? What are we doing to make our church a more Christlike and loving place?
A powerful and sobering piece. Thank you, Brent.
You complain about lack of citation in a New Era article but fail to provide any backup information about this man’s death. I don’t disbelieve you, but there is no information in the attached obituary that this man was either gay or killed himself. Most importantly, there is no evidence that it is the church’s fault that he killed himself. That is an assumption that is both unfair to the man and the church. If you personally knew the man and his struggles, I would be interested in hearing more about them.
It is true and tragic that several well-meaning homosexual members struggle with the idea that they are sinners, falling into a deep depression and occasionally taking their lives. The church and it’s leaders could do better with loving and allowing more options for these people. However, blaming the church — and only the church — really simplifies the issue. So many of these people come from families where there is not a high level of tolerance. Just because parents cite the church as their reasons for treating their children the way they do does not mean that they are living in harmony with church teachings. Furthermore, you fail to take into account the choices of the individual. I have a family member who is not active in the church because she didn’t think she could live that lifestyle. I think no less of her for it. She found a way to live that makes her happy and still maintains very strong relationships with her Mormon family members. This man chose differently. I’m not judging him — suicide is always sad — but we really don’t know what went into this decision.
I know this is an unpopular position on this board, but the point I’m trying to make is that there are always other options than suicide. If someone doesn’t know that and really thinks that is the only way, there are a lot of other factors at play than just a religion that teaches about sin in the same way that many other religions do.
If the church is even partly to blame (and I think we’d all agree that it is), then change is required, clear and simple.
Awesome post.
Brent – Thank You for posting this. It is SO horrible
that gay Mormons are made to feel (By the church) that
they are sinners or not worthy. If God made us all, then
we are all worthy! People have NO control over being born
gay. I have known MANY gay people from when they were
VERY young, & I promise you, they were BORN this way. And
just because they “marry” the opposite gender, does NOT
mean that they will become “straight”. What a horrible life
sentence all gay individuals are given. . . Pretend you are
something that you are NOT, or be condemned by your
“Church”, the people who should be Christlike and accept
ALL people for who they are, NOT who they are made to
‘pretend’ to be! Come on folks, lets STOP this insanity
and save the lives of a LOT of young gay people!
Libby, obituaries *often* do not list cause of death, *particularly* when the deceased has committed suicide. Suicide is a very painful and personal thing for families to deal with and I’m not at all surprised that this obituary does not reference the cause of death. Are you claiming that Mr. Beers did *not* kill himself? Perhaps you can reference a source for your claim. Brent has already referenced a source for his, namely people who knew Mr. Beers and have posted about his death on Facebook. Does it surprise you that the obituary did not reference Mr. Beers’ sexual orientation? Clearly, Mr. Beers was conflicted about the fact that he was gay, most likely due to his LDS faith and it’s lack of acceptance of him. How is stating that Mr. Beers was gay “unfair” to him? It’s an insult to say that he was gay?
Your post is so pejorative in tone that it just serves to reinforce the types of negative attitudes which help to cause despair in young gay people in the church. And it isn’t just the LDS church — no one is claiming that it is. Yes, you’re right that there are plenty of other churches which teach a similar message of condemnation for GLBT people. And young people raised in those churches commit suicide in disproportionately high numbers, too. No one is specifically blaming the LDS church above all others. It is a general lack of acceptance and a pervasive condemnation of gays and lesbians in our society which produces this type of suicidal despair in young gay men and lesbians. It is also rejection from family members (generally due at least in part to the teachings of their church) which leads young people to feel that they cannot go on living, and must take their own lives. But the church most certainly deserves its fair share of the blame.
Simply saying that the suicide, himself, must be blamed for his decision, is simplistic and callous. Would you say that a young person subjected to constant hateful bullying because of his religious beliefs who commits suicide in despair deserves 100% of the blame? His bullies are 100% blameless? I don’t think so. If young people are killing themselves in inordinately large numbers in relation to their church’s teachings and the despair those teachings cause for them both in their direct religious lives and also in the indirect influences of rejection from family and friends motivated by the same religious beliefs, there is a serious problem which must be addressed. Shrug and walk away if you like, but don’t blame the victim.
I don’t believe in hell, but if it existed, I think our society as a whole deserves a spot there for our treatment of men like this.
I apologize if my tone was callous or pegorative. That was not my intent. I was merely trying to make the point that suicide is a very complicated issue, and that it’s not always easy to know exactly what issues that person was struggling with. Simply because someone is gay and Mormon does not mean that is the precise issue that led them to that tragic end. Is it likely? Maybe. There’s no denying that there’s a great desk of this sort of thing going on within these conservative traditions, especially in areas, like Utah, where it is so ingrained. I just question whether it really the institution or the closed-minded culture that has grown up around that institution — a culture where people feel that they have no other options.
This is a conversation definitely worth having–when we encounter intolerant Mormons (or any other group, but since most of us here are Mormons), do we blame the church or do we blame the people? Of course, it’s always more complicated than just an either/or situation. And I grow tired of hearing people always blame “the church” for every dumb/callous/mean/stupid/petty/judgmental act or event that occurs in their lives.
However, I think it’s worth asking whether “the church” does anything that allows dumb/callous/mean/stupid/petty/judgmental people to think they are doing the right thing. And, perhaps even more importantly, does the church do anything overt/explicit to communicate that they do NOT condone these kinds of behaviors?
I would love to hear someone get up in General Conference–next week–and lay it all out. PLEASE say–from the walnut tree pulpit–that you do NOT want people to treat their gay brothers/sisters/uncles/aunts/neighbors/coworkers badly. PLEASE say that you love them and want them to be part of our church community. PLEASE say that you we should not shun people who leave the church. PLEASE say that husbands and wives should not leave each other if one loses faith in the church.
Just be super clear. Leave no doubt. I’m listening. I’ve spent my whole life believing that our church leaders had special access to God. And so I want to hear what God wants us, as Mormons, to know about how we treat other human beings. I’m not convinced that God is happy with the status quo.
The problem with religion is too much talk of God and not enough talk of love. Any God which exists must be Love and true love is unconditional. All the laws and rules and regulations are the work of man – men actually – luckily God has a great sense of humour which S/HE clearly needs. But then love is laughter because love is joy.
This is wonderful and beautifully written. Thank you!!!
I struggle for the right words. Forgive me if I don’t articulate well. My heart hurts. Having been raised LDS (my parents converted when I was five), I always thought, “well, if people feel differently, instead of trying to change this religion, then why don’t join another church?” Slow down. Remember, my family converted and I think I never saw the LDS Church as the one “true” church. I always felt like their were options.
What I see is that for many, when raised, I mean, really raised in the LDS church, there are two options: The LDS Church or Not.
It wasn’t until I moved West, went to BYU and met people who were born into the LDS church and had grown up in large and influential LDS communities. At BYU I had several Gay friends. Many of them were also EFY Counselors and worked at the MTC. They tried their hardest to fit their round pegs into the square holes. Over time, people “found” them out too. And they were also pushed to the wall and had to make their choice. As I am sure you have seen, some remained and continue to lead a celibate lives. Some were married and often experienced the collateral damage of divorce or trying to stay married to someone they ultimately did not want to be with. Some left and with support of family and friends, and were able to move forward. Many of them struggled with feelings of being “cast out” of the “one true” church.
When I saw the headline about another Gay LDS Man taking his life, I heard the words of many of my Gay friends, “In his mind, he had no other choice.” And I think what many of us struggle with is: To be who you really should not mean that you have to give up everything you believe in.
I cannot imagine actually believing, wanting to be a part and because of how I was born, ultimately, I could not be a part. Seems like really cruel joke. Like I said, my heart aches for this man and all the other people who are suffering because they feel like they cannot be who they are. We have to find space for everyone on this planet.
Libby, I’m sorry if I judged you overly harshly. I just have a hard time with the idea of defending the church’s harmful actions in relation to gay people. And I don’t just mean the LDS church. I was raised in the Assembly of God, which has always taken a similar approach to gay people. I remember when I was a teenager and a gay man started attending our church for a few weeks. When it became known to the congregation that he was gay, the pastor and elders sat him down for a talk and told him he was not welcome to attend our church unless he “became” straight. I remember hearing the story of Soddom and Gomorrah in church and how evil those people were, and being told that they were all destroyed because they were “homosexuals,” and that God would do the same today if we “tolerated those sorts of people among us.” This despite the fact that the Bible doesn’t say anything about S&G being destroyed because of “homosexuality,” but rather because they were “haughty” and “did not care for the orphan and widow.”
When I realized I was gay, when I finally put a name to the feelings I’d been feeling since I hit puberty, I had internalized so much homophobia from my church and my family (who were devoted to religion and the church) that my self-hatred was overwhelming. I truly, deeply wanted to die. The *only* thing that stopped me from killing myself was my fear that God would send me to hell for committing suicide (since Mormons don’t believe in hell, gay Mormons don’t even have *that* to keep them from suicide). Fortunately for me, when I left home to go to college, I ended up finding a church home in the Episcopal church, and began learning that there were other, arguably more historically and exegetically correct, ways to interpret the 8 or so passages of the Bible commonly interpreted as condemning homosexuality. I would say that this is probably what saved my life. While it nearly destroyed my relationship with my mother when I came out and when I left the Assembly of God church, doing so is what kept me from committing suicide. I was able to develop a life and a faith of my own which included the God of my understanding, who would not create some 5% of the population gay just to laugh at us hatefully and tell us to go be something we are not.
For a young gay Mormon, particularly one raised in the “Book of Mormon Belt” who goes off to college at BYU (the site of decades of infamous psychological experimentation on gay men with electrical shock torture and emetic agents), who knows that to come out as a gay man will involve not only disgrace among all of his peers, but possibly the loss of his entire family, as well as his Temple Recommend, and may result in being excommunicated from the church he loves and losing his entire culture, suicide suddenly may seem like the only viable option. He’s been raised to believe in “eternal families,” and to look forward to a time when everyone he’s ever known and loved will all be reunited in the Celestial Kingdom. But here he is, knowing that in order to attain exaltation, he has to marry someone to whom he knows he will never be sexually attracted, with whom he knows he can never be truly compatible, and raise a family with her under false pretenses. He knows that when he finds a man with whom he falls in love, he can never, ever let that man know his true feelings. If he refuses to marry a woman, his only other choice is a lifetime of celibacy and loneliness with no loving, intimate, caring relationship, no one to come home to, ever, no one who loves him above all else. He can never have a family, raise children, or look forward to attaining the highest degree of reward in his church. He can only look forward to the next 50 or 60 years of coming home to a cold, empty apartment, and trying to find some way to fill his time, as he watches his siblings fall in love and raise families and share warm and happy lives together.
I don’t know if you can even imagine the degree of despair such ideas cause. Not only does he hate himself because his church is telling him there is something intrinsically “wrong” with him (at least of late the church has been deemphasizing the idea that just being attracted to people of one’s own sex is a “sin” — ten or fifteen years ago, gay men were “sinners” according to the church, even if they were lifelong celibates), but his bishop may tell his family to have nothing to do with him if he openly declares that he is gay, even if he remains celibate. The church’s policies on this particular point are so unclear that there is wide variation from one ward to the next regarding how the church treats celibate but self-declared gay people. In some wards, they are welcome to attend. In others, they would be excommunicated. Some wards will tolerate them if they say they “struggle with same-sex attraction.” But if they accept themselves as being “gay” or “lesbian” or “homosexually-oriented,” they risk censure and even excommunication. Gay men who have been so unfortunate as to be encouraged into a marriage to a woman, and have had children, often find themselves (at the behest of their bishop), cut off by their wives from having any contact with their children. Many LDS parents whose children come out as gay are told by their bishops to cut off contact with the child (even though there is no specific church policy requiring this).
How much of this is just “Mormon culture” and how much is “church policy”? Does it really matter? Mormon culture arises from church participation, whether or not every aspect of Mormon culture comes directly from the Prophet’s mouth. And unless the church takes action to correct abuses within Mormon culture, the church must share some level of responsibility for that culture’s undeniable effects on young people raised in the church.
I truly and deeply, with all my heart, understand the pain these young men and women are experiencing. I have been there. And yes, it IS the fault of religious beliefs and teachings which have marginalized gay men and lesbians as pariahs and outcasts. Not just the LDS religion, but all religions which teach that God does not accept gay people the way God made them.
@Lorian, thank you for taking the time to post part of your story here. People need to hear personal, first-hand stories like yours. I’m convinced that that is what most effectively changes minds and hearts. . .
Ditto. Thank you, Lorian, for your story. You’re right, I don’t fully understand that type of despair, and I hope I never have to. But I know it is there. I’ve seen it in people that are close to me, and I don’t judge any decisions that those people make to avoid that despair. I don’t think that God does either.
Brent, I agree, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to do so.
Libby, so true. I can only believe that God’s heart as is wounded by Chris’s suicide as any parent’s and that God is even now holding Chris close like the beloved child I know him to be, and giving him the love and comfort he so needed to feel.
Interesting responses to the 2 people (myself included) who issued a simple request for accurate information, and the realization that there are many facets to a person’s choice to commit suicide. Defensiveness and silence. These are the same responses I get from church members who want me to be “active” and agree with everything they assume to be true, or want to believe. Is this the way to have a healthy conversation?
Just another reader, where are you getting “defensiveness and silence”? If you need further information than what is referenced in the OP, try the Trackback/Ping link listed above, directed to “Cor Invictus Mourns Death of Community Member: Latest News.” If you can’t take the word of Mr. Beers friends that he was gay and that he committed suicide, I’m not sure what sort of evidence you are looking for.
Just another reader: Here’s a link to an article from The Advocate re Chris Beers’ suicide:
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2012/03/23/Gay_Mormon_Mans_Suicide_Points_Up_Tensions/
I saw this last night — too many have been lost already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-XZRNL9ZnyM
You had me laughing (“we have a glorified press release that everyone wants to treat as scripture (and since we spend so much time talking about an open canon, maybe the folks in the dark suits should go ahead and add it, just to make a point, since no one has added anything since 1918”) and then I got to the end. Heartbreaking.
After reading your post I decided to look up the new era article. Ew. Ew. EW. It’s because of articles like that and talks like that in the church that made my coming out so damn hard and painful. I ache for other youth in the church now who are facing the same (and probably worse) things I faced in coming to terms with myself, my attractions, my love, and my place in religion. Thanks for sharing! Also, check out a recent guest blog post written by a Mormon Mom on the lgbt voices collab: http://lgbtvoices.blogspot.com/2012/03/enough-is-enough.html
It is very sad when people take there own lives because they feel like they are not accepted. Most religions believe that being gay is a sin. So if you are a member of anyof those churches, what do you exspect. Do you want them to change there scripture for each individual person who believes what they are doing is not a sin. hummm. Of course they will tell you what you are doing is a sin. I am not saying this is my belief. Why should a religion compromise what they believe and tell you what you are doing is ok. This is why I dont brain wash my son into believing any certain religion, but talk to him about loving everyone and that it is ok for people to be different. because we ALL have the RIGHT to choose what we want, weather we are born this way or not. Even if a person is not born gay, but chooses to be gay, well that is ok too.